Traveller-digest     Sunday, September 5 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1061



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: request for URLs with Traveller pictures
Re: GDW Sign for sale
[www] 05 Sep 1999 - Freelance Traveller Updated
Re: GDW Sign for sale
Re: standards of beauty
Re: The Big RED Button (was Re: The Big Button)
Re: Re B5 Mass
Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund" 
Re: THUDDD anyone?
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048
Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...)
Re: GT Armor - Cheaper Merchants, Faster Combat Craft 
Re: Back from the Front (GCUK99)
Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...) 
Re: Acceptable Battle Losses (was: Re: Safety of low berths)
Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...)
Re: Inter species relationships
Re: Nuclear War
re: Imperial Military and PR
Re: Safety of low berths...
Re: Inter species relationships
Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...) 
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1060
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1060

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 16:46:27 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: request for URLs with Traveller pictures

> As for the second part of your post I have a P133 with a 33.6K
> modem and the screen is set at 1024x768 with 16 bit colour (mainly
> so I can have Jesse's Sulieman-2 picture as a desktop).
>
>
> --
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
> Wellington, New Zealand
>
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
>



Sorry to push your limits :)  Anyway, the future will see versions of the
pics at approx 800x600, 1024x768, and 1152x864.  Don't see much call for
beyond that.  I say "approx" 'cause some of the pics may / have been cropped
in interesting ways for higher visual appeal or drama.  If this is a
problem, I'd suggest the excellent shareware program ThumbsPlus
(www.cerious.com).  I do all my graphics wrangling, conversion, thumnailing,
and wallpapering with this program.

Best,
Jesse

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:41:43 EDT
From: JLAROSEE@aol.com
Subject: Re: GDW Sign for sale

So... how big is the sign; can it be reached by ladder?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 20:00:01 -0400
From: Jeff Zeitlin <jzeitlin@cyburban.com>
Subject: [www] 05 Sep 1999 - Freelance Traveller Updated

Freelance Traveller, the Electronic Fan-Supported Traveller®
Resource has posted its most recent update to
http://come.to/FreelanceTraveller and
http://www.downport.com/freelancetraveller/Default.html.  

This update features:

 - Thad Coons gives us our second series of Lab Ship articles, on
   planetology.

 - A new article over Kenneth D. Bearden's byline describes a
   system for allowing character improvement during a campaign.
   You can find this article in Doing It My Way.

 - 101 Starships has been updated to the Fourth Edition. It can
   be downloaded from the Freelance Traveller Shipyard.


Your questions, comments, and ideas are always welcome at
Freelance Traveller.  Please write to freetrav@hotmail.com with
any and all of them, as we are in the process of reconfiguring
the forms, and they may be temporarily disabled.  Freelance
Traveller depends on the good will of Traveller fans both to
visit our site and justify our existence, and to write for us,
making our existence possible.

Freelance Traveller is mirrored at http://w3.execnet.com/jeffz.

Freelance Traveller wishes to extend its thanks and appreciation
to The Traveller Downport (http://www.downport.com) and to
Executive Network Information Systems (http://www.execnet.com)
for hosting services. Without organizations willing to cooperate
with Freelance Traveller's ever-growing needs, we would be unable
to bring you the articles and other resources that have made
Freelance Traveller one of the premier Traveller sites on the 
'net.
- --
Jeff Zeitlin
jzeitlin@cyburban.com

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 19:03:53 -0500
From: "shadowcat" <meow@advancenet.net>
Subject: Re: GDW Sign for sale

decent size stepladder would work
looks like some good wrenches to take it from
the mountings.

its probably 4-6 foot square


Shadowcat AKA Kevin Walsh
Captain of the Free Trader Beowulf
ADD/ADHD Advocate
http://www.advancenet.net/~meow

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:11:29 -0600
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: standards of beauty

>Subject: standards of beauty
>Hm, what are standards of beauty in the 3rd imperium?  I mean, our current
>standard of beauty is nothing like what it was 400 years ago (when I'd
>have been considered one of the world's hottest babes, more's the pity...)

Standards can change in as little as a couple of generations. I remember
comments being made about Kate Winslet and how she looked in the film
"Titanic", comments to the effect that she looked a little on the heavy
side... never mind the fact that in 1912, her build would have been
considered very attractive, while someone with the physique of a 1990's
supermodel back then would have been quarantined on the suspicion of having
come down with consumption (ie, tuberculosis)...

Anyway, back to ObTrav/on-topic:
I can imagine quite a variation on desireability from one end of the
Imperium to the other. Given that the speed of communication is only
as fast as the jump drive, and given that most people never leave their
home subsector (or even their homeworld), society in the Spinward Marches
is likely to be quite different than society in the Solomani Rim. There
may well be regional differences between the two. Solimani women like
the Kirk Douglas look, while the Spinward Marches women prefer someone
more like Pierce Brosnan, that sort of thing.

>How are standards of beauty influenced by interplay between cultures?  I
>mean, were we influenced by Vilani standards of beauty???  Which are???

Given the bureaucracy mindset of the Vilani, along with the everything-
in-its-place mentality, I would imagine that the Vilani ideal would be
something akin to the hypothetical average or mean values...

>What do Vargr think is beautiful?  (I had a great Vargr chara with
>red-brown fur & black guard hairs, she was very vain about it...)

Vargr would probably place more value on how someone *smells* than how
someone *looks*... 

Meanwhile, the Aslan view is one of how much land one appears to own...


     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
        "There is no longer any normal to be"
                                 -- Gary Numan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:11:01 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: The Big RED Button (was Re: The Big Button)

At 12:05 AM 05/09/1999 -0500, you wrote:
>Thank you for issuing the necessary caveats, Michel.  Hate for it to turn
>ugly in here.

        I hate fire-fights as much as anyone else.

>>         Anyhoo, my point (and I do have one ;-) is that not everyone has a
>> problem with TNE because of Virus.  And someone else agrees with you that
>> the 3i is boring.  =)
>
>Here's the irony, *I* don't think that 3I is boring.  Its the old
>Twilight/Merc 2000 division: there are people who like the yawning expanses
>that post-apoc. can bring, and there are people that like to know that their
>charaters can kill people without having to worry about gathering vegtable
>matter to fuel their pick-up.  It's a playstyle issue, different sorts of
>motivators and themes.

        Agreed, wholeheartedly.

>  I would like to getting around to playing a 3I game:
>its a whole new of moral morass for the players to conquer (no, you're not
>noble yet tarnished heroes working for a better tomorrow.  Your a buch of
>people with a ship, no money and big bank payments.  What do you do now?)
>
>-J.S.
        
        Sounds too much like real life to me.  I'm into Traveller for the
*adventure*...  not the panic of making a bank payment on time.  <shrug>
Rather much like trying to get fired up about making this month's mortgage
payment on the house.  Just doesn't do it for me.

        --Michel

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
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				ICQ # 31172292
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			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	
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------------------------------

Date: Sat, 4 Sep 1999 23:57:16 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Re B5 Mass

>>Weber has a the same problem that the producer (JMS) of Babylon 5 had.
>>A simple calculation shows that the *air* in Babylon 5 weighs more than
>>the mass given for the station.
>
>But the intro say "2 million tons of steel", and doesn't explicitly state
>anything about the 20 billion tons of plastic, 10 billion tons of air, 5
>billion tons of water... Perhaps it is a displacement rating (say, of
>Liquid Hydrogen)???


Isn't it (and this may well be off - it's been a long time) "two million
five hundred thousand tonnes of spinning metal - all alone in the night" ?

Nick
+++
Not that this is getting at *all* pedantic....

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:09:52 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Lost Keith Supplements "refund" 

>Now you know why i *LOVE* Reavers' Deep so much.  It's a *great* place to
>hang out and shoot things.


"Like a lot of provincial naval commanders, I often get annoyed when I'm
fighting a nice quiet homespun war over local issues when the Imperial Navy
decide to get involved, arrive in Battle Riders and shoot all the opposition
before I can get a missile off. That's why I hang out in the Deep! Reavers
Deep - where the fun (and firefights) never ends! Call 1-800-SHOOTME for
your ticket now!"

Cdr Greyson Hawkes, Caledonian Confederation Star Navy.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:11:50 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: THUDDD anyone?

>
I love the seeing THUDDD revived. Just one minor point.
Since GURPS is now a valid design system, might it not
be an idea to give the TLs on the website in both Traveller
and GURPS terms?

>

Or post the conversion table. According to G:T, there's a pretty straight
correlation, at least from Trav to GURPS. Converting back requires a little
more ingenuity.

NB

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:32:13 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1048

>> ----------------------------------------------------------------
>> Is that the tactical nuke game that said "To simulate a strategic nuclear
>> war, soak the map in lighter fluid and apply match"?
>
>No.  Nuclear war is an amusing (if cheesy) little cardgame where you try to
kill off the other players with a combination of propaganda (which steals
people, but doesn't work during war), nuclear weapons (which kill people),
and a wide variety of special event cards.  Due to the mechanics of
fighting, it is possible for everyone to lose.
>

War, they say, doesn't determine who is right. It only determines who is
left.

NB

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 00:55:05 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...)

>        I disagree with your analysis, given an envrionment of the 3i.
>Perhaps in my TNEC millieu (TL 9 - 11), but not the 3i.


Well......I had an opinion on this once (which side it was on isn't really
relevant.)

I made the mistake of mentioning it on the Trav Tech list. It spawned a
three week shouting match as either side presented the proof that the other
side's plans would never work. I decided I was looking at it from the wrong
angle.

Normally, you plan for what you expect, and you sink a lot of money into
defending against the expected attack. For example, I cite the Maginot Line.
If you have a bigger economy than the attacker and he attacks like you
expected him to, he will not win. (You may not win either, but war has a way
of being nasty like that.)

Most of the decisive victories in war happen either because the winner had a
sizeably bigger economy, or because the winner attacked the loser in ways
that had not been anticipated.

Nick
+++
These views are not necessarily the views of anyone in the world. Including
me. So don't yell at me. Please.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:15:43 -0600
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: GT Armor - Cheaper Merchants, Faster Combat Craft 

>The toys flopped in the U.S. The other merchandise flopped in the U.S. The
>show was popular with only a few audiences: the largely male teen /
>twenty-something anime fans and older teen goth-type girls.

I think you hit the nail right on the head there -- Anime is very much a
niche market in North America, and niche markets don't do very well when
it comes to merchandising.

The popularity of Pokemon probably has more to do with the game itself
than anything else... and I can see that one eventually going the way of
the Tamogotchi. :)

("The way of the Tamogotchi" = Tam Fu? Tamogo-do?)



     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
        "There is no longer any normal to be"
                                 -- Gary Numan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 01:18:58 +0100
From: "Nick Bradbeer" <nickb@ndirect.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Back from the Front (GCUK99)

>Rush out and buy MAG-BLAST! by Fantasy Flight Games. It's a small non-CCG
>(ie a complete card game) for 2-6 players which is set in the Twilight
>Imperium game universe. Each player takes a race and protects their
>flagship with a selection of scouts, destroyers, cruisers, dreadnoughts and
>carriers, then fights out a battle to destroy the enemy flagships and win
>the game. It's fast, self contained and great fun (reminds me of Nuclear
>War for some reason). The BITS crew spent a lot of down time playing this
>(included several too-late nights). It retails for 13.95 GBP and the guy
>from FFG told me that it's had disappointing sales :-( but thats nothing to
>do with the game itself! It looks a bit like a twin deck starter CCG and I
>reckon that has put people off it. Buy this game now and have a fun time
>with your friends.


No, for the love of heaven - don't! You'll end up staying up until stupid
hours in the morning, you may have to fight off blasphemous ideas about
replacing High Guard, and above all else you might draw the race whose only
special ability is that they can blow up their own scoutships.

Nick

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 21:21:58 -0300
From: Michel Vaillancourt <misha@empire.atlantic-online.ns.ca>
Subject: Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...) 

At 08:08 AM 05/09/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>> >Which brings up an important point, what stops ships from coming out of jump
>> >closer to the world? I forget why.
>> 
>>         Actually, I don't know.  I believe the 100d limit works both ways,
>> although I do not know if that is TML convention or actually canon.  In my
>> TNEC milieu, I use 10/100 for jumping out and 5/50 for the limits coming
>> in...  Mostly because I need blockade running to work in my millieu.  IYTU,
>> YMMV.
>
>I use the canonical 100 diameter 'curb', with the addition of the 100 
>diameter 'solar curb'.  And no, I *don't* use 'armored beachballs from Hell' 
>for defenses, or the 'DSR'.  IMNSFHBO, Traveller space combat is lethal 
>enough without having instant death dealt out by the first shooter to win the 
>combat at ridiculous distances.
>
>Keven
>
        Hi, Keven!
        100d from the star makes sense.   It makes for a serious problem
trying to hike in as a blocade runner, and exposes outgoing vessels to
privateers, et al as they try and get to the 100d.  However, it increases
the area needed to be patrolled monsterously as well...  almost to the point
that combat is avoidable...  I'll have to work it out on paper...

        --Michel

	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	Michel R. Vaillancourt	misha@atlantic-online.ns.ca
				ICQ # 31172292
	"Reality Error in Progress....
			....Do Not Adjust Your Penguin"	
	-+=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=+-
	Into Cyberpunk?  Check Out:
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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:14:15
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Acceptable Battle Losses (was: Re: Safety of low berths)

At 12:56 PM 9/5/1999 -0700, you wrote:

>What would be the "acceptable losses" of a planetary population that you are
>attempting to "liberate" and later rule?

It depends.

Are you trying to win their hearts and minds, or crushing them and their
little dog Toto too?

If you hope to have some popular support, you make it very clear that you
will only attack military targets.  This is a two-edged sword, because
while it severely limits your options, it might help swing popular opinion
your way, and you might get a ground-based resistance operation started.

Going for the knock out punch, you make unrestricted war.  Look at the
civilian deaths in Japan and Germany.  You attack with everything to
totally destroy not just the military might, but the underlying support for
that military.
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

People want anarchy for about five minutes. Then they
want a backrub and some money.  - Bruce Sterling

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:25:20
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...)

At 09:43 AM 9/5/1999 -0700, you wrote:

>The Pentagon lost the confidence of the majority of Americans
>at that point, whereas, despite the vocalness of the anti-war protestors, 
>they had until then, been a minority.

I took an interesting course in the Vietnam War a few years ago, and the
professor traced the growing mainstream opposition in part to the
appearance of the soldiers the public saw on their TV screens.  Many of
these people were WWII or Korea vets just far enough removed from their
service to have forgotten the reality, and the visual impact of your common
Grunt circa 1968, coupled with the growing agitation in youth culture all
over the country, lead to a strong belief that we couldn't win.

When people saw the US embassy being overrun, it just cemented the idea
that we were helpless.

>It all depends on how completely the 3I contols the news services. The
>Solomani Rim War wasn't some anti-communist police action in some backwater,
>but an invasion of the 3I by a major outside power.

By controlling the X-boat system, and more importantly the naval couriers,
the Imperium has an excellent way to trump the newsies.  Say that the 15th
Freedonian Infantry has been destroyed.  The news first comes to the
Freedonian government by courier, and they have anywhere from weeks to
months to prepare.

- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

There was once a time when the church controlled the government.
The laws of the church were the laws of the land. Belief in God 
was strong, teachings of the church were rarely questioned.
This time was called The Dark Ages.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:26:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Inter species relationships

At 11:53 AM 9/5/1999 -0700, you wrote:

>The only problem I have with Klingon women is their dental plans seem
>inferior. Considering the supposedly high tech level of the STU, this is
>quite silly. Dental care returns if you are half-human, apparently, if
>Voyager is any indication.

Perhaps Klingons shed teeth like sharks?  Makes sense for a predator, since
they'd lose them on a fairly regular basis.
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:29:06
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Nuclear War

At 09:55 AM 9/5/1999 -0700, you wrote:

>which was that the Warsaw pact countries could mount a scary-assed advance
>into Europe for about 100 miles, then they'd have to stop and wait a day or
>two for their fuel supplies...stored back under lock and guard in Russia so
>the field commanders wouldn't sell the stuff on the black market to
>supplement their incomes...

Even better was the revelation that many T-72s had inoperable turrets.  The
hydraulic fluid used was alcholoic, and had been drunk by crews unable to
get other drinks...
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:31:28
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: re: Imperial Military and PR

At 10:52 PM 9/4/1999 -0400, you wrote:
>This talk of plantetary assault meatgrinders brought something to mind.
>
>I was watching a documentary on paratroopers, they were interviewing
>a strapping young American Airborne trooper, I think of the famous
>US 82nd Airborne.

That's the only Airborne we have left.

>The paratrooper was talking about a get-together where he met some
>retired members of the unit. He proudly told some old-timers that he'd
>been in thirty airdrops. He asked a veteran how many airdrops he had
>been in.
>
>"Oh, only four. Salerno, Sicily, Normandy and Holland."

The old guy was pulling a little leg.. it's alway taken at least five jumps
to qualify for the Silver Ice-Cream Cone.  So he had at least nine jumps..
admittiedly, those last four were doozies.
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:37:15
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Safety of low berths...

 From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au>

> - ----- Original Message -----
> From: Douglas E. Berry <gridlore@mindspring.com>

> Thanks for reminding me of those Barry,

Personal nit:  My last name is spelled Berry.  I haven't been called by my
last name exclusively since my first name was "Private First Class."

Doug, Douglas, Hey you, or That Idiot in San Francisco are all acceptable,
but please spell it right.
- -- 

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 18:49:10 -0600
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: Inter species relationships

At 02:53 PM 1999 09 05 -0400, you wrote:
>> buxom Klingon sisters
>
>The only problem I have with Klingon women is their dental plans seem
>inferior. Considering the supposedly high tech level of the STU, this is
>quite silly. Dental care returns if you are half-human, apparently, if
>Voyager is any indication.

There is nothing wrong with Klingon dental plans. Klingon teeth are
*supposed* to look that way. Lt. Torres on Voyager is half-human, and
obviously takes after her human parent when it comes to how her teeth
turned out. And Worf's teeth look a little more human than what is 
otherwise normal for a Klingon because he was raised by humans who
didn't know any better and took Worf to a good orthodontist to get his
teeth in line... :)

(Somehow, though, I can't imagine an adolescent Worf with braces on...
maybe in the 24th century, Earth dental care has evolved past them?)

And what is dental care like in the 3I and environs? Do Vargr chew on
specially-made substances to clean their teeth (akin to Milk-Bone here
on Earth)? 

"Hey, Pink, next time you go to the human food store, get us some
more of these great Earth cookies!"


     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
        "There is no longer any normal to be"
                                 -- Gary Numan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 17:50:36
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Imperial military and PR (was: Safety of low berths...) 

At 09:21 PM 9/5/1999 -0300, you wrote:

>        100d from the star makes sense.   It makes for a serious problem
>trying to hike in as a blocade runner, and exposes outgoing vessels to
>privateers, et al as they try and get to the 100d. 

In doing up the systems of Lunion using _First In_, I'm finding most worlds
are well inside the star's 100d limit.  Makes life a little more
interesting.
- --

Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html

"I created the universe; give ME the gift certificate!!"
                   - Lisa Simpson, Overachiever

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 05 Sep 1999 19:02:54 -0600
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1060

>Hey, don't peg this on G:T.  The origins of the IISS in the Sylean
>Federation are attested as far back as Classic Traveller Book 6, and
>confirmed in the T4 Milieu 0 sourcebook.

Sorry, that was not my intention, to pin it on GT. My reference to
GT was intended as a passing comment, an example. There are others,
such as that in the TNE book (The section "Down in front, Cleon", for
example), and what I hear second-hand about Milieu 0 (which I never
heard of before starting to read the list regularly.)

In fact, it was the release of GT that rekindled my interest in
Traveller, having been both a fan of the original game in various
incarnations (CT, MT, TNE) and a long-time GURPS player (10 years or
so).

>After the Civil War, the Scout Service took on some new functions -- the
>X-boat service, for instance.  But that was because its original functions of
>exploration and contact were becoming less important.  The Imperium did
>most of its expanding *before* the Civil War, not after.

Wasn't most of the expansion through Corridor and Deneb into the Spinward
Marches and its environs post-Civil War? My mid-Imperial history is a little
fuzzy. I'm still trying to unravel the different timelines that diverge in
1116 -- I keep having these images Dulinor finding Strephon in his shower.

(A little gag from the GT main book, for those who haven't read it yet.)

>If you're gonna complain about G:T revising canon, at least double-
>check to make sure what canon *was* before G:T came along :-).

Which pre-GT canon are we discussing: CT, MT, TNE, T4, Milieu 0? There
are so many, each having made its own revisions to the canon along the
way. I used GT as an offhand example, not as an intent to place the blame
there entirely. My apologies for being unclear. (Yes, I do recognize
your name. I'm now waiting for the lightning to strike...)  :-D

(BTW, I am currently running a GT campaign myself... it even has its own
web site.)

- -- g



     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada 
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn
        "There is no longer any normal to be"
                                 -- Gary Numan

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 5 Sep 1999 21:14:51 EDT
From: JFZeigler@aol.com
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1060

In a message dated 9/5/99 8:06:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time, 
cos90@powersurfr.com writes:

>  Sorry, that was not my intention, to pin it on GT. My reference to
>  GT was intended as a passing comment, an example. There are others,
>  such as that in the TNE book (The section "Down in front, Cleon", for
>  example), and what I hear second-hand about Milieu 0 (which I never
>  heard of before starting to read the list regularly.)
>  
>  In fact, it was the release of GT that rekindled my interest in
>  Traveller, having been both a fan of the original game in various
>  incarnations (CT, MT, TNE) and a long-time GURPS player (10 years or
>  so).

Cool.

>  Wasn't most of the expansion through Corridor and Deneb into the Spinward
>  Marches and its environs post-Civil War? My mid-Imperial history is a 
little
>  fuzzy. I'm still trying to unravel the different timelines that diverge in
>  1116 -- I keep having these images Dulinor finding Strephon in his shower.

Actually, no, the Spinward Marches were pretty thoroughly settled and
integrated into the Imperium well before the Civil War.  Recall that both
the admiral who set off the Civil War and the one who finally won it both
came to it fresh from having fought off the Zhodani. . .


>  Which pre-GT canon are we discussing: CT, MT, TNE, T4, Milieu 0? There
>  are so many, each having made its own revisions to the canon along the
>  way. I used GT as an offhand example, not as an intent to place the blame
>  there entirely. My apologies for being unclear.

Yes, that is a problem.  Canon has definitely been a moving target even
in the official GDW material. . .to say nothing of all the "approved for
Traveller" releases, fan material and whatnot, some of which has been
very good but a lot of which contradicts itself.  I can attest that when
doing new material for G:T, reconciling all the different sources is not
trivial.


> (Yes, I do recognize
>  your name. I'm now waiting for the lightning to strike...)  :-D

<* chuckle *>.  Don't worry, I hung up my lightning bolts when I finished
doing Greece years ago.

- ----------
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty
set of people who will take offense at it."

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1061
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